* Please ask permission from Bijou Standard Poodles to use any information contained on this web site *
~ Red and Brown Poodles ~
(red and brown pups getting desensitized to different surfaces)
Our puppy people usually end up with both a Red and a Brown Poodle from us
"Bell" dark red and "Charm" dark brown
Example of what our pups grow up to look like
Mango (red) and Tulip (brown) in show clips 2019
Rosie and Lulu
(apricot and brown)
Brady and Barnaby
(Red and Brown)
Finn and Gracie .................. 2 more of our Poodles
Lulu (Pep x Val) and Rosie in Nova Scotia ..........Finnegan and Reigna
~ Finnegan and Reigna are our Best in Show Alter Winners ~
(apricot and brown males) Aero owner Ashlea and Beau
Aero and Beau have won many many events for their owner Ashlea including Best in Show !!
SIMPLE RULES TO AVOID A RED OR BROWN PUPPY THAT FADE:
1. NEVER EVER buy a red or brown that has silver, blue, cafe, apricot, white in the pedigree
2. Generally your puppy will appear like their parents. Faded or light parents will create that in their pups
3. Black (real black not a dyed blue) does not increase darkness of red or brown coats.
4. Black (real black, not a dyed blue) could be used in a red/brown program as long as does not carry any other colour
5. IF Black carries the red/brown gene it will not improve those colours, only produce the brown/red that is behind them.
5. Black will "carry" red/brown gene and not alter the red/brown gene.
6. Apricot/Cream will NOT carry red, which means apricot/cream will actually "block" the red gene
7. White (real white not a cream, called white) will cause mismarks.
7. Silver, Blue, Cafe DESTROY the red and brown colour in Poodles.
8. Silver and Blue should ONLY ever be used in a Silver, Blue, Sable, Brindle breeding programs.
Apricot, Black, Red, Brown pups
Shades of Red
Red, Apricot, Cream Hair from poodles - (photo curtesy of Sheila M. Schmutz, Ph.D.)
ADULT: Red ..............very light Apricot .................. and a Cream Standard Poodle
(apricot and cream Poodle are not Bijou Poodles)
Light Red Hair.....................Red Hair.................Darkest Irish Setter Red Hair
ADULT: Light Red Poodle....Red Poodle.....Darkest Red Poodle
ADULT: Lightest Red, Red Poodle, Darker Red, Darkest Red
shaved down to illustrate the variance in shades of Red on Poodles over 3 years of age
Shades of Red: apricot, light red to our Darkest Red
Our average litter in 2006 Our average litter in 2013
Light red and Dark Red Poodles
Partially shaved, to show how the longer coat looks darker than shorter coat
New born, 12 weeks of age, 16 weeks of age, 2 years of age, 3 years of age
Stages of red coat developement:
Of course diet, hormones, stress, sun can also effect coat color
As you can see in the photos above, like rings on a tree you can see
where this female has had a changes in her life that have caused her fur on her head to lighten then darken again.
Or as on the leg of a 14 week old puppy, shades the puppy's coat will go through when maturing.
Some of our red girls that are breeding, will fade out to light red when they have their pups
only to go even darker red, after the pups are weaned.
The simple fact is that our Reds will be born red, our dark reds will be born dark red, our apricots will be born apricot.
The colour our pups are born, are generally the colour they will end up maturing to be.
Our reds will go through many stages of coloration as their coat grows in and they mature.
They also have flattened areas of coat or "cow licks" which can have them appear to be missing hair or
having bald patches in their coat, But this is not the case, just take a hair blower and fluff the area to see.
At 8 - 20 weeks of age you can expect to see lighter shades on the lower parts of their body such as legs
and variations of lighter shading through the coat. This is a normal process.
At around 6 months of age (usually the first groom) you will see their coat colour look more clear
and even, in colour. By one year of age you will pretty much have their finished coat colour.
Of course reds can vary in colour, depending on the lighting with the natural sun or a flash
really intensifying and show casing the brilliant orange of the colour.
People panic when they first get their "dark red puppy" from us, because they see light variations within the coat.
But people do have to realise that Poodle coats are not buckets of paint. Fur and human hair alike, have many
highlights and lowlights within and will constantly change with diet, stress, how a person maintains the coat.
For a bit of a further education, go to any of our red Poodle pages and start at the bottom seeing when they were born
scrolling up to watch each of them mature and the many coat changes they go through.
We are the only red breeders in the world that document each of our Poodle's growth in this way.
In order to maintain the lustre of red coats (same as red headed humans must do) an owner should
use products specific to the coat colour to optimise coat colour and longevity of the colour.
Hair texture can also vary, and you can see photos on this page: Poodle Coat
Red Poodles same as red headed humans have thinner hair and it can stay straight or puppy coat until 3+ years of age.
Poodles do go through a "coat change" at around 6-9 months
and then around a year the Poodles have a "coat change over"
it is every show breeder's nightmare because of course this is when
we start to show at 6 months of age and also at 12 months of age
is when we want full show coat for their continental show clip
This is when the puppy coat starts to fall out and adult coat comes in.
One breeder described it as the puppy and adult coat are fighting to stay.
It can be a nasty matted mess overnight, and it seems you just groom them and
BAM you have knots again… and lots of "dust bunnies" as the coat comes out
and is thinner, adding fish oil to the diet is said to help, but best is regular grooming
Regardless of what shade of red you get from us, you are guaranteed to have a Poodle like no one else has,
stopping traffic where ever you go with them and always have people stopping you to comment:
"what breed of dog", "what colour is that", "I didn't know Poodles came that big", "Is it a show Poodle"
"Zoe" - Lightest Apricot ......."Dixie" - Dark Apricot/Light Red ..........."Conan" - Medium Red.............."Blaze" - Darkest Red
(Sorry Bijou Poodles can no longer produce light apricot and very rarely can produce dark apricot or light red)
Breeding for Dark non-fading reds is difficult as there are a few basics to understand first.
Blue, Silver, Cafe in a Red or Brown pedigree introduces fading gene.
White or Parti in a Red or Brown Pedigree causes "mismarks" .
Brown, Cafe in a Red pedigree causes Liver and Pink nosed Reds.
Black contributes what ever is behind them for colour in their pedigree.
Using a "good" Black in a Red program does "NOT" improve the Red Colour.
A Quality Black can improve pigmentation and type IF the black is of superior quality
with no blue,silver,cafe, brown or other dilutes in pedigree (also called "carrying" those colours)
Two recessives (ie apricot x apricot) bred together can not produce a dominate (ie red)
Red is dominate to cream and apricot.
Apricot is recessive to Red
Cream is recessive to Apricot, Red
Will Reds Fade ?
Light Red at 6 years of age............ Dark Red at 6 years of age (VERY RARE)
All colours will fade "to a degree" how much, depends on pedigree and genetics.
Real reds will not fade to any other colour. Real red will remain red into old age.
Just look at our older reds to see how they mature.
How red got the reputation of fading is Breeders call cream and apricot pups "red"
and then just say that they "faded". When in reality they were cream or apricot all along
Bijou Poodles has been sent many puppy photos from breeders asking if they were red pups.
They are alway so disappointed when we inform them they are creams or apricots.
Some good guidelines are:
If a pedigree contains a lot of dilutes (cream, apricot) then chances are that they will fade upon maturity.
If a pedigree contains no dilutes containing only dark red and if the parents are dark red then chances are puppy will not fade.
As you can see the red poodle on the right has held their dark red colour and their pedigree is majority dark red.
An experienced red breeder that owns dark red poodles will be able to know if the puppy produced should be a dark red.
I do think it is important to remind people that two recessives can NOT produce a dominate colour
Apricot bred to Apricot will NOT produce a red puppy no matter how dark red those pups look when born.
Not all breeders research their pedigrees or have photo pedigree of generations behind their breeding dogs
to be able to know if an individual puppy or litter, will be a dominate red or not, so in this case minimally
meet both parents to see how they matured or if buying long disance get current photos and or videos
of both parents. You can ensure the photos are current by getting them to hold the daily newspaper in the photo
Or if photos are show photos, and especially photos of mom nursing pups should give you the best indication of colour.
I say this because many breeders will just use stock photos of their past pups, not taking new ones of their pups or the parents.
One of the most famous red breeders sent me the same puppy photo a year later, telling me this was a puppy that was available !
When I confronted her she replied "oh I don't have time to keep taking new photos and they all look alike".
Diet and coat care also effect coat colour to a degree.
Shades of Brown - Will Browns Fade ?
(Shades of Browns clipped short to show true colour. An example of our Brown Poodles
Bijou Poodles is one of the very few dark brown breeders in the world.
We have been selectively breeding our Browns since 1989 to hold colour, to be larger in size, pass all conclusive health testing
and of course the most important feature of our browns, have sweet calm temperaments.
Browns can fade to a "degree" and their coat can appear dull if not maintained properly.
However the overall appearance of a brown coat should leave no doubt, as to it being a brown poodle.
.........................RosieK - silver beige .................................................."Cocoa" - light Brown ...................."Hershey" -Dark Brown at 8 years
(We are not using Browns that carry Silver or Silver Beige in our program to avoid fading browns)
!! WE DO NOT HAVE THIS COLOUR OR SILVERING BROWNS !!
We have purchased many browns that have gone silver with brown raccoon eyes,
or gone cafe and we have not bred or kept them for our breeding program
because of our high standards, our brown program has been an emotional, expensive and uphill journey.
Darkest of browns, may still get grey hairs through the coat, but the overall appearance of a brown should be that of a brown coat.
It is still very difficult to produce a brown with a clear brown coat with no grey hairs.
In some cases grey hairs may be concentrated in "areas" such as on the tail, on the back, on the legs, on the rear.
This is a brown female, that is out of two nice brown parents.
Dad's side had Blue 3 generations behind him.
Which means any "black" out of that "blue" will probably
be blues, (dyed black for showing). Silver ruins a brown program
no matter how dark brown the individuals appear
because fading will always happen. AVOID SILVER !!!!
Brown Show Poodle Top Knot (hair on the top of their head)
the base is dark brown and the ends are bleached red from the sun
Show people will usually avoid this happening to their show coats by keeping them
in shade or in dog runs or putting sun screen on the coats.
This is because brown when bleached by sun, gets red highlights.
Although not "desirable" when showing, we have to admit looks very striking
Blue and Silver in the brown pedigree (especially in first 3 generations) will cause a brown to silver up, changing colour completely.
White in the Pedigree, will cause "mismarks" to happen.
Our "ongoing" goal for the brown colour, is to produce dark brown "clear" coats that hold their colour.
We must be doing something correct because in 2016 when showing our lightest brown in
the Poodle Club of Canada Specialty the judge a Poodle breeder when she handed me
the Best in Show Bred by Exhibitor Trophy said "I just have to tell you, GORGEOUS, GORGEOUS, GORGEOUS colour.
I used to breed browns and I can appreciate how hard you worked to get this colour to hold and be so dark".
This judge was from South Africa, and we have also had handlers from all over the world also comment
"you have the darkest browns and reds I have ever seen"
The funny thing was the bitch she was commenting on was my lightest brown, I bred and owned.
"Sophie" Puppy Eye Color is green ...................................................... "Sophie's" Adult Eye Color ~ Correctly ~ Brown
"Kahlua" Puppy Eye Color is blue ...................................................... "Kahlua's" Adult Eye Color ~ Correctly ~ Brown
Colour of the Puppy's eyes may be blue, green, yellow when young (just like human baby's change)
Eye Colour will change to Amber, light brown or dark brown colour and could even be a pumpkin colour. AKC Poodle Breed standard states: Brown and cafe-au-lait Poodles have liver-colored noses, eye-rims and lips, dark toenails and dark AMBER eyes.
In the Red/Apricots while dark brown eye color and black pigmentation is preferred,
liver-colored noses, eye-rims and lips, and amber eyes are permitted but are not desirable.
We are breeding to have dark pigmentation towards the breed standard's "IDEAL".
2016 many brown and red breeders from all over the world contact me
asking me "how do i know if my red/brown will fade or not" ?
Well start with the pedigree, if there is blue, silver, cafe in the pedigree
chances are yours will fade out because that Poodle contains the silvering gene
How much fading depends on what the brown ancestors grew to mature like to see how
dominate that silver is in the pedigree or how far back
BUT lets say you have a really good all brown/black pedigree and pups are pretty
similar in coat shade and type and temperament. Myself I flip them over and
check out the paw pads and select the one with the least white "fluff" and darkest paw pads.
I hope that answers that question and helps some people out
A Bit about Noses (often referred to as "Points")
Pink nose...........................................Snow nose............................................Liver Nose.............................. Correct Black nose
~Pigmentation~ when referring to dogs, means the colour of their eye rims, nose and lips.
When Poodle pups are born they "may" have no pigmentation (pink noses) or "may" have black noses and pigmentation.
Generally within a few hours or days the pigmentation will fully fill in to be either black or liver or incomplete (ie snow nose).
Red Poodles can mature to have Pink noses, Snow noses or Liver noses genetically. (I'm using the word "nose" in place of Pigmentation as that is where colour is most noticeable)
Pink nose is void of any pigmentation (flesh coloured).
Poodles especially reds can also have Snow Nose.
Snow noses are missing some areas of pigmentation, usually only in the winter season when there is less sun but not always.
In summer when exposed to the sun, the skin darkens (tans) to completely fill in with clour on the snow nose.
In summer even the Pink Nose will either completely fill in, or partially fill in, with colour (partially fill in colour is what we refer to as winter nose).
Winter noses will usually completely fill in during summer with more exposure to sun, or sometimes respond to diets containing Iodine via sea kelp (Too much of a supplement, can be harmful, so keep this in mind when using them).
Liver nose is a light brown colour and nose, gums, lips, eye rims will all be liver colour.
Red Poodles with Pink noses will usually have Pink or incomplete pigmentation
around their eyes and lips, which is VERY undesirable for showing and for breeding towards the breed's ideal standard.
Red Standard Poodles should have black pigmentation but it is acceptable for them for show to have Liver/brown pigmentation.
Brown (or cafe) Standard Poodles genetically can't have Black pigmentation, it is genetically impossible
Brown Standard Poodles will have Brown pigmentation (nose, lips, eye rims).
Poor pigmentation on browns would be really light brown or even pink pigmentation (usually because of red/apricot found in their pedigree). AKC Poodle Breed standard states: Brown and cafe-au-lait Poodles have liver-colored noses, eye-rims and lips, dark toenails and dark AMBER eyes.
In the Red/Apricots while dark brown eye color and black pigmentation is preferred,
liver-colored noses, eye-rims and lips, and amber eyes are permitted but are not desirable.
We are breeding to have dark pigmentation towards the breed standard's "IDEAL". VetGen Lab can test for nose colour (points/pigmentation) along with coat colour.
What does Mismark Mean ?
Red Puppy with white mismark (should disappear) .........Brown Puppy with white mismark (will not totally disappear)........... Red Puppy with white mismark (will not totally disappear)...Finnegan at 5 weeks of age
Ocassionally pups will be born with a white toe(s) or white fluff or patch on their chest.
These areas are called mismarks and is very common. Depending on the size of the area
the white areas may disappear completely or diminish upon maturity.
This does not decrease the value or price of our puppys.
Some people find these areas very distinquishing and want this unique marking on their puppy
but we can not guarantee these areas will remain.
However, some breeders are breeding "FOR" this, hoping ot increase the amount of white
and showing them in UKC as Multi Color Poodle
as "abstract". As of 2017 I could not get the UKC to provide a size or measurement to define an Abstract for the standard.
Breeders showing AKC or CKC often will just dye this area to show them and breed them
and this is partially why mismarks have continued and even increased, to this day.
In 2005, the United Kennel Club became the first North American based show registry to accept multicoloured Poodles
for conformation events. After reviewing all the facts, the standards were amended to allow separate "variety" classes for solid & patterned coats.
This includes your Agouti (Shaded, Sable, Phantom, Brindle) Parti and Abstract, basically anything other than solid colour.
MERLE is a disqualification, as this does not occur naturally in the Poodle breed, and is associated with many health problems.
In 2010 I decided that there has to be a way to DNA test a dog to determine if they carry the parti gene
which is known as the "spotting" gene. No one else had thought to do this or document this as even a possibility.
I wrote to all the labs currently offering DNA colour Testing and asked if they could do a DNA test for the "S" locus (spotting gene)
in dogs and explained what I was looking for and why. I knew that the white spotting on dogs is determined by the genes on the S locus.
When we use the term "white spotting" we simply mean white areas, not actually white spots.
White areas can occur on any colour of dog be it black, blue, brown, brindle, sable, Phantom.
White areas are also a "pattern" not a colour when looking at genetics.
Each lab doing DNA colour testing, returned my emails saying that they did not test for the "S" gene.
Only HealthGene Lab wrote back that they could do this and that they are the only labs offering this.
What this now means is that there is a DNA test available to determine if dogs carry the parti or mismark gene.
The gene involved is the variably expressed S (white spotting) gene.
- SS (two dominant alleles) would not have or show white spotting
- SSp (one dominant, one recessive allele) would indicate they may show a little bit of white markings but carry for spotting
- spsp (two recessive alleles) has the excessive white/spotting.
Spotting is recessive, therefore both parents must be carriers for this gene in order for it to occur in the litter.
Therefore, poodles that are genotype SS would not have or show white spotting
(if there were white markings this would have likely occurred due to a random occurrence, but is not related to the gene),
NEW IN 2013 DDC Veterinary is now offering DNA testing for the S-Locus (DNA marker – MITF)
This allele is associated with "Piebald, Parti, or Random White Spotting" among several breeds.
There are 3 possible reported genotypes:
NN – 2 copies of the non-parti allele
N/S – 1 copy of the non-parti allele and 1 copy of the parti allele
S/S – 2 copies of the parti allele
All of these samples will DNA test as being "YELLOW"
THERE IS NO DNA TEST FOR THE COLOUR RED. (Do not be mislead)
There are only DNA tests that will test for "yellow" (which includes cream or apricot or red, or, white as a unit) such as DDC Vet or
Apricot/Cream/Red/White as a "unit" such as Vetgen Labs.
Or HealthGene Lab.
Red is not distinguishable from it's "recessives" (Apricot/Cream/White) at this time.
In 1989 Bijou Poodles began researching Colour genetics in Poodles.
Information was not readily available and most breeders had no clue about recessives or dominate colours
Even in 2011, I was still getting phone calls from Breeders asking me to tell them if their poodles carry for red or brown.
In 2001 We began working with VetGen labs to establish a DNA test for the Brown Gene which was achieved.
In and around the same time the DNA test for "YELLOW" was achieved.
What confuses Breeders is that the "shade" of these genes (or lets say darkness of colour) is NOT established yet.
So while a Poodle may test positive for "Brown" that doesn't tell a breeder if the brown is cafe, light brown or dark brown.
Brown is not distinguishable from it's "dilutes" (cafe, silver-beige,light brown) at this time.
(Shades of red)
What this means is that if you test "Positive" for RED (Yellow) that your dog may not produce red at all
but may just produce only cream or only apricot or white.
Remember simple well known fact that two dilutes can not produce a dominate colour.
Red is dominate to apricot and cream.
DD = not fading
dd = fading gene
About the D Locus that now labs are testing for.
D locus is thought to be associated with the dilution or lightening effect of the solid colors Black, Yellow (meaning Red or Apricot) and Brown,
The dd genotype (genes dog carries and is not visable) results in the diluted/fading effect.
So that means if you "see" a poodle that is Apricot, Red, Black or Brown and carrying "dd" gene that that poodle is said to fade and
Carrys the gene for fading.
A dog carrying DD does not guarantee the dog is a real Red or real Apricot.
All it is said to guarantee that what ever colour you see that that "individual" is said to not get lighter.
BUT...that is NO guarantee that the puppy they produced won't "carry" the fading gene "dd" UNLESS BOTH Mom and Dad are not carriers of "dd" gene
The best guarantee to getting a red that is a "real" red is to see mom and make sure she is "visually" a real red by looking at her.
See the dad or recent video of dad or mom and make sure that "visually" they both appear dark real red with black noses.
OR that one parent is dark red and the other parent is a dark apricot or light red with known dark red behind both parents.
Of course there are a couple more ways to ensure dark red pups, but I'm not giving up all my secrets to gaining great colour :)
Now there are more to genetic make up that effects fading but this the most advanced we are for testing as of today.
To date the DDC lab is the ONLY lab testing for this gene...and they told me that to date (2009) no poodle has tested positive for having the dilute gene...hmmm ???
Suspicious of this finding I went one step further and I sent in DNA sample (at my own expense) and had DDC Lab colour test a black that had faded out
and also DNA from a brown that faded out dramatically to a cafe.
The results came back that both of those faded poodles were not carrying dilute.
OK if that is true then why did they fade... you can draw your own conclusion on the validity of this test for yourself.
(Brown,Red,Brown,Red standard poodle puppies 3 days old)
These colour DNA tests are only beneficial if you are trying to test:
If a black poodle is carrying the brown gene or "dd" (silver,cafe).
If a black poodle is carrying recessives of "cream/white/apricot/red" as a grouping called "yellow"
If a brown poodle is carrying "cream/white/apricot/red" as a grouping referred to as "yellow"
If a "visual" red/cream/apricot/white is carrying black or brown/liver pigmentation referred to as "points"
But an educated, good breeder will know what colours their dog could carry, by just reading their pedigrees (hoping they are true)
These DNA tests are only made possible because of breeders such as ourselves
who contributed their pups hair sample and DNA to help establish a data base for the brown gene.
How do Your Dark Browns and Rich Reds keep their Colour?
Dark Red ................................. Dark Brown
I have always enjoyed studying pedigrees, color charts and predictions.
So when I decided to concentrate on breeding for only beautiful brown and rich red it only came naturally to me to first spend
YEARS researching colour genetics for the Poodle, the brown and red gene, studying pedigrees and photos,
tracking what seemed to be dark red and dark brown puppies and checking back to see them as adults
to see if they had lines that kept their colour into adulthood or faded out to light Red, Apricot or even Cream
or in the case of browns, stayed a rich dark brown, chocolate milk brown or went grey.
As a result I have a MASSIVE data base of photos and pedigrees that form my study guides.
Click here to read more about the ~ History of Reds ~
Once I found those lines (pedigree) and individuals that remained dark, I bought them.
Then I completed every Conclusive Health testing to enusure they were healthy.
Then I DNA tested them to make sure they were not carrying the dilute gene.
Then I accomplished their UKC championships to prove they meet the breed standard being Structurally correct.
Then I work towards a working title to ensure and prove that mentally they were intelligent and capable.
I then breed the darkest richest colours together who are out of colour bred lines for at least 3 generations, preferably 5 generations
because some recessives can carry up to 3 + generations through dominate colours.
This means browns that have ONLY brown and black pedigree with no silver, blue, cafe, cream, apricot, red, white
This means reds that have ONLY Red and with no silver, blue, cafe, cream, white, brown
I will use black with our Brown program but ONLY if the black doesn't carry silver, blue, cafe, cream, white, apricot, red
I will use black with our Red program but ONLY if the black doesn't carry silver, blue, brown, cream, white.
Of course along with colour they also needed ideal health, temperament, conformation so it was a long journey to say the least.
Getting great colour, sounds simple doesn't it ? Well the concept really is simple and easy to follow on "paper".
Reality is that it took years to find dark Brown that had a solid brown/black pedigree.
It took years to find a dark Red that had a solid red pedigree (with none or only small amount of apricot which is a dilute of red).
Of course ALL our dark colours also had to pass ALL OFA health testing, have proper structure as proven by achieving
a Champion or Grand Champion title, be intelligent as proven by achieving a Working or Performance Title
to back our claims up that we have and produce the ~ TOTAL POODLE ~.
Something most people told us would be impossible to achieve on our Reds
and yet here we are in 2012 one of the VERY few Red Breeders doing it all.
We have VERY high standards in what we breed so we will only provide the best to our puppy people and for us to keep.
We avoid ALL European lines as they are all apricot or reds that faded (just do a search for yourself)
We also avoid ANY European "Brown" Lines as most of the ones we have documented have silvered out too much for us.
Best assurance today to obtain a deep dark red will be to find one with a COI of 6% or greater IF onto a dark red ancestor.
Because there are so few breeders breeding real dark reds that have passed all OFA Clearances the gene pool
is not big enough to achieve colour, type, temperament with a COI of 6% or lower in 2012.
Until more breeders focus on achieving colour, (as type and health are already established) this will continue.
Breeding with "diverse" red lines will not produce real dark reds that hold their colour.
Hopefully more red breeders will begin to understand how to scientifically breed,
so that the dark red gene pool does increase and we can still keep the type, temperament and health.
People always ask how we do it. I have not done anything. Breeders before me did all the ground work.
Dark Red Breeders before me knew that dark red had to be sustained and so they cemented the colour.
All I had to do was the research to find those lines and use them to their advantage in our breeding program.
Then I followed my knowledge and common sense and not the trendy breedings being done.
There were years when everyone believed red aided the brown gene and that blue aided the red gene.
However this was totally illogical giving what we know about colour genetics, so I followed my own path and here I am today
with some of the deepest darkest red Standard Poodles found in the world.
Basically and very "overly" simply stated,
I breed brown to brown (both carrying no dilutes)
or black (Carrying DARK brown with no dilutes) to brown
A black in a brown breeding program is only as good or only has as much to offer, as the browns behind them
A dark black carrying a faded brown will likily produce only faded out browns unless line bred on dark brown.
and dark red to dark red with black noses (pigmentation) or
black (carrying ONLY DARK RED and no dilutes) to dark red
Black used in a red breeding program is ONLY as good as or only has as much to offer, as the reds behind them.
A dark black in a red breeding program having only light reds or apricots behind them is most likily to produce poor reds.
in order to keep our pup's colours dark and to not fade and keep dark Pigmentation.
If you want to be as assured as you can be, that they puppy you buy is a real red, then make sure both
parents are reds and not cream, white, apricot.
That being said, all poodles will fade to a "degree" at some point in their lives.
Reds "may" get a shade or two lighter and browns may get bits of grey or light areas through their coats as they age
we just try to breed to not have them fade a great deal and also to prolong that fading from happening.
We are able to tell our puppy people at birth, what colour pups we have and what they are likily to mature to be like in colour.
I do not mislead people. Even though some pups may be VERY dark at birth to the "novice", we know the difference
and we will share that information with our puppy people.
Obtaining and producing Dark Colors was a VERY long process and is still ongoing,
as not only do our Poodles have to have colour, but they have to be healthy and have CALM temperaments.
Now many years later we have and are able to offer to you, the "Complete Package".
Red Toy Poodle...................................Red Miniature Poodle.............................Red Standard Poodle
Toy is the smallest under 10", Minatures are 10"-15", Standard Poodle is over 15"
Registries such as the CKC, AKC, UKC, only have 3 sizes of Poodles that they officially recognize & register.
RED STANDARD POODLES: Physically: Our Red poodles tend to be 21"-25" in height and also 45-55lbs.
I have introduced a different line in hopes of getting more height on our reds but as of 2010 this seems to be our average.
Reds are refined, "pretty" in their looks and VERY athletic, running like the wind.
Reds we keep, are dark Irish setter red which we breed together.
We will usually get dark Irish setter pups with correct dark brown eyes and jet black nose, eye rims commonly referred to as "points"
in our litters but they may have a white toe or white fluff on their chest *Read more about colour.
Photos of our reds just do not do them justice, as they are so much darker than they appear in video.
Every colour will fade at some point and at some degree but we hope to prevent or prolong that from happening by
Select breeding. Our Reds can stay Irish Setter Red or they can lighten to a dark apricot with age.
We have seen dark red pups from other breeders go almost completely white if they have not had a red pedigree.
Best guarantee that your puppy will stay red is to see both of the parents current photos and videos.
Our reds are FAST... they are the Lance Armstrongs of the poodle world for sure. Lots of wind and can
out race our browns in a game of keep away or tag. Our Reds would LOVE agility or rally.
Temperament : Well if you have seen Velcro on shoes... you will know what I mean when I say
our Reds are like velcro dogs.
They want to be everywhere you are, even in the bathroom.
Reds are total devotion, dedication and adoration and huge cuddlers.
All our poodles have calm laid back temperament. NO hyper pacing or barking.
Males are more laid back content to rest on your feet
Females wish to be on your lap and also wish to know
where everyone in the household is and what they are up to.
Brown Miniature and Brown Standard Poodles
Breeders however have created marketing phrases to emphasis the size of their poodles.
So phrases like "Tea Cup" for really small Toy Poodles, "Moyen/Klein" for larger miniature poodles or
"Royal Sized" for larger Standard Poodles, which are marketing tools to describe heights.
BROWN STANDARD POODLES:
Larger standard poodle at 28" tall and a normal standard poodle sized at 24" tall
Physically: They range from 24"-28" and 45lbs-85lbs.
Our Browns tend to range in size really depending on the parents
Our Browns tend to be more "course" than what you would typically see at a dog show and for sure
have loads more muscle and boning than the average chicken boned poodle you may meet.
Our Brown poodles are DARK brown. This is very difficult to have achieved and took years.
Our pups "may" get a sprinkle of grey hairs through their coat when they get older and may even lighten
on their muzzle or tail area when they age. There really is no guarantee on colour even though we do
DNA test to ensure our poodles do not carry the fading gene. *Click to read more about Colour
Temperament : Our Browns are sweet natured and calm.
All our poodles have calm laid back temperament. NO hyper pacing or barking.
Our Browns love to be with you in the same room or on the couch beside you cuddling during a movie.
I use my browns as my jogging partners as they are taller and longer limbed able to do 6km with me
without any stress or strain and they actually look forward to it and enjoy the activity.
Browns and all poodles will actually do any activity that pleases you as that is just the breed's nature.
Over the years I have done Tracking (ALL dogs love this sport), Schutzhund, Obedience, Rally, Pet therapy,
Agility with my poodles and all performed well. I have tried doing feild with my poodles as my good friend was
training her tollers at the time, but other than getting my poodle pups really birdy I never did get past the force fetch to excel.
had a bit of a colour chart that I have modified
to make it easier to understand.
In this colour chart the colours "red, apricot, cream" are grouped together as "yellow".
Please keep in mind that recessives can not produce a dominate colour.
Although when born and while young, pups will appear darker and will fade to their true colour by 1-2 years of age.
cream x cream will not give you red or apricot
Cream x Apricot will not give you red but will give you cream and possibly apricot
Apricot x Apricot will not give you red but could give you cream and apricot
Red x Red can give you red, cream, apricot
Of course there are other colours that these poodles can carry and produce
but for this colour chart we are only doing red (aka yellow) and brown which do not carry anything other than Yellow, Brown, Black.
Line up the sire to the dam to see what resulting pups you could obtain.
Red (all red pedigree) x Red (all red pedigree) = Red (small chance of apricot, cream)
Red (red, apricot) x Red (red, apricot) = Red, Apricot (small chance of cream)
Red (with apricot, cream ) x Red (with apricot, cream) = Red, Apricot, Cream
Apricot x Apricot = Apricot, Cream
Cream x Apricot = Apricot, Cream
Cream x Cream = Cream
Black (cream) x Cream = Black, cream
Black (with apricot, cream) x Apricot = Black, Apricot, Cream
Black (with apricot, cream) x Red (apricot, cream) = Black, Apricot, Cream (small chance of red).
Black (with red, apricot, cream) x Red (apricot, cream) = Black, Red, Apricot, Cream
Black (with red) x Red = Black, Red (smaller chance of apricot and cream)
Breeding Red to Red you can get all creams, all apricots or all red or a mix depending on the pedigree behind the parents.
Breeding Red to Apricot you can get all creams, all apricots or all red or a mix depending on the pedigree behind the parents.
Why do we get all the shades of red in a litter ?
It depends on the pedigree (what is behind the parents).
A red can be Visually a dark red (usually only until 1-1.5 years of age) and never produce dark red. (know the pedigree you are using)
A red can be produce dark red although not dark red visually themselves, by usually being linebred or inbred with a COI of 6% or greater.
Cream and Apricot are a recessive to dominate Red. Two recessives bred together can not produce a dominate.
Recessives can not CARRY a dominate colour (ie cream and apricot can't "carry" the red gene)
Red is dominate to Cream and Apricot. Red can produce Cream and Apricot.
Apricot is dominate to Cream. Apricot can produce Cream. Cream can not produce red or apricot
This means that if you have recessive colours in a pedigree, they will diminish the dark red gene and the potential to get dark red pups.
For a true dark red Poodle to "maintain" their colour and produce dark red pups, there are a few ways to do this.
1. The pedigree must contain only red (first 3 generations especially) with no dilutes such as cream and to a lesser extent apricot.
2. The Pedigree can contain recessives, but must be bred back (line bred or inbred) onto a "dominate" dark red ancestor (COI of 6% or Greater)
3. The Pedigree can contain recessives (1/4 of pedigree), but must be bred to a proven genotyped "dominate" red.