BIJOU STANDARD POODLES
I totally appreciate anyones desire to try breeding.
We all had to start somewhere.
What people don't realise is that we and most established breeders
will get 3-5 people a day, just like you, all wishing to breed.
So I decided to put together some information to help people decide if the hobby
might be for them or not.
MY ADVISE BASED ON 25 YEARS OF INVOLVEMENT IN DOGS
RELATIONSHIP
Make sure that if you are in a relationship, that your significant other, is on board with your plans.
I would advise anyone to put it all in writing to refer back to should the need arise.
Most breeders have found this hobby very difficult on the relationship, because it does become an obsession.
Spouses often feel, neglected or taken advantage of, or feel they are doing more than their fair share, if they don't share your passion.
Discuss in advance what you will do with your puppy money. I know for myself my husband found it hard to accept that no puppy money
was "fun money" or his money and he received no financial compensation for all his hard work.
Instead any money the pups brought in, goes directly back to "dog care" or "dog hobby", this hobby is expensive if done correctly.
Most spouses stop finding pups "cute" after many days or weeks of being "sleep deprived" because of noisy pups.
Most spouses stop finding it a nice "hobby" when the stench of pups and accidents that mom has inside the house, too smelly.
Most spouses stop finding this hobby a money maker venture, when they see the repair bills of flooring, doors or other ruined items or rooms
Most spouses stop finding it fun "entertaining" strangers constantly coming through their home to visit pups after 6 weeks.
Most spouses will eventually not be as friendly to potential puppy clients after the 20th call interrupts sleep or dinners
VACATIONS
Forget any future vacations, or overnight get aways.
Most breeders find it very difficult to find someone to dog or puppy sit
It is just too difficult to find someone to trust, to take adequate care of the dogs. IF you have pups, or a mother that is due to whelp
well you are going to have to have someone at home 24/7.
Have a Mentor. Mentorship is defined as a personal developmental relationship in which a more experienced or more knowledgeable Breeder
helps to guide a less experienced or less knowledgeable person. However, true mentoring is more than just answering occasional questions
or providing ad hoc help. It is about an ongoing relationship of learning, dialogue, and challenge.
Having a mentor is paramount to having success.
EVERY breeder 'pays their dues'. And what I mean by this, is every new breeder has a momentous
often costly and for sure emotional experience within the first 5 years of breeding.
It is kind of like a right to passage, to test a new breeder's resolve of staying in the hobby.
So having a mentor on hand, hopefully the new breeder can lesson this experience when it does happen.
It does not mean a person in the same breed. Matter of fact someone in a different breed would be more apt to give you
help and unbiased information and also have a longer relationship than someone in the same breed that you will
eventually be competing with to sell pups or just even in the show ring.
A mentor Just someone with over 20 years of successful breeding experience that you can go to, in order to ask questions
and receive support in and about breeding in general.
They should not be afraid to share their positive and many negative experiences with you.
These Breeders will be available to talk you through tough choices, help you to problem solve
and hopefully you can repay them by helping them in return.
Often breeders will dog sit for each other which is a great thing to have.
They will show you breeding techniques by you being with them at 0300 delivering pups
they can help you learn how to show, by you helping them out at a show, holding dogs or even showing yourself.
My Mentor taught me how to remove dewclaws and tails, Artificially inseminate, teach my dogs obedience, how to show
how to make good breeding choices, how to view a pedigree and an individual dog seeing though the glitz and glam.
She was also a great sounding board when problems arose (and they will) often helping me examine many sides to the issue
that I would not have even thought of. Of course I also made myself available to her 24/7 dropping everything to run to her side
to glean any learning experience she was willing to share.
Finding a mentor is pretty easy.
Just attend some dog shows and you will soon see who is well respected in the community.
My mentor had been breeding over 30 years and was very well known.
I basically followed her around helping her and chatting her up before letting her know I was going to be breeding and asking her
if I could help her do hands on care of her dogs so I could learn. She was very hesitant to welcome me into her world
but after a year of putting some sweat into building a relationship of trust, she opened up to me and taught me a wealth of information.
Remember nothing is for free. What she learned cost her a small fortune, and she was going to help me avoid some of that cost.
Many of my mentors over the years never even knew I was using them as a mentor. I would just be like a sponge
soaking up all the information that they would share, in conversations at shows, emails and at classes
Information I would file away for future reference, or writing it down in my Canine Medical Journal.
Initially though a new breeder needs someone that lives in close proximity that can be on hand to help and teach
The ideal mentor will have been breeding successfully for over 20 years. Keep in mind, eyes and ears open but mouth closed.
You will have very little of value to share until you have been through some hardships of breeding yourself.
This page that I did up will also help you get started:
Breeding Practices
Wow I can write a book on this subject.
Not all Vets are created equal that is for sure.
What makes a good vet really does differ with who you talk to.
"pet people" want a vet that is socially skilled, caring and holds their hand and can refer them to specialists.
"novice breeders" want a vet that is socially skilled, caring and holds their hand, are reasonably priced and can refer them to specialists
"Experienced Breeders" want a Vet that can do various skilled surgeries themselves and that has experience with
other breeders (who teach them a ton), a Vet that has been practicing over 20 years.
Most breeders find that large animal Vets or horse Vets have the most skill and hands on experience.
I think it is PARAMOUNT that people and Breeders view Veterinarians not as Doctors but as Sales people with a product to sell you.
Vet's unlike human Doctors only make a living and pay their bills by dispensing products
or by encouraging health investigations on your pet.
I'm sure most Vet's do get into practice because
they initially really wanted to help animals. But with school bills, living expenses and all their bills adding up
for new graduates especially, it is easier and certainly more profitable to start charging people for extensive services
and treatments that animals really do not need, but are not outside of the College's guidelines
often pressuring owners with guilt inducing statements, or by only offering the most expensive and extensive treatment
options and knowing that the general public will trust a health care professional.
I really can't stress enough to forgo the shiney expensive Vet clinics that treat you like a VIP and is staffed by
Veterinarians with less than 10 years experience. Your puppy will receive the most appropriate care at a busy clinic
that is experienced in large animals, that all the local breeders go to (especially established show English Bulldog Breeders)
that has Veterinarians with 20+ years of experience, (usually farm vets)
because your puppy is more likely to only receive care and or treatment that they will need from an experienced Vet that has seen it all
and can address any of your concerns or surgery needs right in their office and not have to refer you to an expensive specialist.
Established Vet's will also probably not be recommending crazy in-depth extra services just because they won't have a new machine
a new clinic or school bills to pay off, or worse have no idea what they are looking at so they try a "hit and miss" approach for treatment options.
YES THEY DO ALL OF THIS !!
Our Vet has over 45 years experience and we have been using him for 20 years after being referred to him by another breeder.
His bed side manner is less than desirable because he just tells you the way it is and I'm sure he is a tyrant to work for
as he has high standards, but, he cares about the animals and puts their welfare first.
When I went to him as my 2 bulldogs fence fought and basically chewed off each others faces
I was crying and could easily have been taken advantage of as I would have done anything to fix them.
He looked at me calmly and said "well you can take them home and pour peroxide on them to prevent infection
and help the wounds heel up from inside out all on their own, or I can knock them out, do stitches which may get infected
cause they will rub and scratch at them and will leave a scar and I will charge you $600.00 to do them both".
I chose to go home and follow his instructions and my Bulldogs placed 1st and 2nd that year for Top American Bulldogs
and 4 months later won Best in Show at a Specialty.
Another example is when I purchased a puppy and brought it home only to discover it would not weight bare
and was lethargic. I thought it might have a broken leg so rushed to the local Vet clinic.
Without looking at the puppy they told me all the procedures they would like to do to "rule out" issues.
I finally came to my senses, scooped up the puppy and left, paying the $90.00 vet bill and the next day
Drove 1 hour to my Vet. My Vet examined the puppy and asked when he had his shots.
Well puppy had received lepto and corona vaccine the day before. My vet said "oh he is having a vaccine reaction
and you will have to coax him to eat and drink but he should be just fine in a week or so".
WTH ?? Why was my Vet able to tell me this and the other vet was not ?? Experience and no bills to pay is the reason.
I trust my vet and he has saved me a small fortune of unnecessary care
and my dog's undergoing needless pain and of course, expense. His vet bill was $50.00.
This is the type of Vet Breeders need to look for in order not to be fleeced and not to have their dogs undergo needless treatment.
I have many more stories listed under Real life Vet horror stories
that new breeders might wish to read before they start looking for a Vet.
Word of mouth from "Experienced" skilled breeders with over 20 years success, is the best way to get started.
WORK
Most breeders find they need a full time job to afford this hobby.
Purchasing breeding stock can run a new breeder $5,000.00 and a new breeder should start out with the very
best male that they can afford or find or use for stud, no matter what the price is and also find a good quality female.
I would advise anyone to use a Stud if possible so that you can keep resulting pups for your future program.
Once you get a male, you are locked into those lines, or be faced with parting with him in the near future for genetic diversity.
Now if you have a job and can afford to care for and purchase your foundation stock, then you have to consider
what you are going to do the week that you have a mother due her pups. Who is going to be able to stay with her when
you are at work ? Are you going to be able to afford the care for a litter which can be up to $2000.00 in vet care, $500.00 advertising
$300.00 supplies, $800.00 for a whelping box ... the list goes on and on...
Trying to maintain a lifestyle through breeding dogs, like cattle, is no way to be breeding.
There are just too many poor choices and compromises you will be forced to make in order to pay bills
and the breed, your breeding program and your reputation, will suffer as a result of these poor choices.
If you can't afford to gamble and breed on your income, don't start
CARE
Most people get into breeding thinking how great it will be to have the pups right next to their bed.
What they fail to recognize is the noise, the smell and the amount of cleaning involved.
Breeder's need their sleep in order to function properly and have the patience to deal with animals (and family).
The result is a breeder needs a separate room or location, to house and care for mom and pups.
This means having a dedicated bedroom for a nursery. Overstimulation by housing pups in a living room
has disastrous long term effects on pups and mother.
Come up with a name that will reflect your future lines and accomplishments.
Keep it one syllable and short as takes up room, on the registration papers.
Some people choose a name indicative of their breed, while others use
combination of their and their spouses names, or their street or region names.
Make sure your web page has a ".com" and not indicative of the country you are in
as that will limit it coming up in searches. Make sure your email address is also not associated
with your phone or cable server, because if you switch servers you don't want to loose your contacts
or all the advertising you might have put out there already.
Make sure you put "your" kennel name on any dogs you purchase and register.
This is because if you show or trial your kennel name will do your advertising
for your kennel in any show catalogs, or if you make it to the Top Ten of any sport.
Other breeders always look to see which kennel or breeders are doing heavy winning
Not only that, but you should be recognized for all the hard work and dedication you put into that dog
Myself I want to start establishing a pedigree with my kennel name on it going back generations
so that initial purchase starts my history.
!! RESEARCH !!
Do your research on Poodles or what ever breed you are considering breeding.
Read the breed standard (available on AKC, CKC, UKC web pages) to learn proper Structure and your Breed Standard
Have a mental picture of what the "ideal" Breed should look like before you even consider a purchase.
Find out everything there is to know about the breed, how they have to be raised, groomed.
For example, some breeds are happy and or content to be kept outside in a kennel. Poodles are not.
Grooming. Are you going to be able to groom this breed or financially afford to have someone do it for you?
Health issues. What issues do you need to be aware of and ensure that you buy a puppy from "OFA and DNA" clear parents.
Do research to see if there is even a demand for the breed in your area. Look at ads with them for sale
find out what price they are selling for and how old they are (to help determine if there is even a demand for pups)
If breeders are still "stuck" with 8+ old pups, then you know there is no demand for that breed or that colour or that quality,
but you need to find out why, before you even consider investing in that breed.
Then find out what colour, size, pattern, quality, are the pups that are selling and find out also what is not selling
so you could avoid getting a colour or size or quality that is not selling.
Then do research specifically on what ever colour/type/size/lines you decide to do, or your like, before you jump in to a purchase.
To learn more about colour breeding you can read this page: Color Breeding
Because even though you love black, perhaps no one else will be looking for that colour and even though
you might prefer a huge standard, that no one else wants Poodles that large.
As of 2013 people want small standards and people are starting to want white or parti colours.
Just remember that breed faults such as merle colour is because this colour or pattern is not natural for Poodles
It is from an introduction of another breed, bringing with it all the health associated problems.
You sure do not want to be producing pups, that you are unable to place in pet homes by 8 weeks of age.
One thing you will find is that breeders that have a good reputation and who have
accomplished a lot with their Poodles, will usually only sell pups for breeding purposes
to those that are also showing and trialing, or have a good established reputation within the breed.
Breeders that do a ton with their dogs, spend more than they will ever earn off of breeding,
and tend to really appreciate and protect their pups they bring into the world.
They only wish to sell to people who have also struggled and experienced similar hardships and learning experiences
so that they know that a buyer will also respect the puppy and the lines that they obtain.
These Prospective puppy people show and or trial and as a result will also aid Breeders in promoting a Breeder's breeding program
by showing and trialing and putting titles on a puppy from a Breeder.
This is what will motivate a reputable breeder, to sell a puppy with breeding rights.
Once a breeder gets something really special, they kind of want to keep it that way,
to ensure that they always have loving homes lined up for "their" pups, that they don't keep.
If Breeders sold to everyone that wanted a puppy to breed, with breeding rights, they would be rich the first year
but after a year or two, they would have no puppy homes for their own pups, they don't keep.
The reason is simple. People who bought from them the year before, started breeding and undercutting their prices
because they don't have the same show expenses to pay, or the expenses of health testing, training
and or worse, don't have an established reputation and are desperate to place unwanted pups.
Breeders never want to see this happen with their pups, their lines or their reputation.
Even if a Breeder likes you and what you do, they still have the fear of what the people "YOU" sell to will do.
I placed a puppy with a very nice small caring breeder, with breeding rights years ago with the stipulation
that she not place any pups for breeding purposes in my state and would run any potential buyers for breeding rights
through me. Imagine my surprise when 5 years later I see a big Back Yard Breeder
advertising a litter of 8 week old pups from my male puppy I placed and also with a price for Pet or Breeding.
How many other BYB's or Puppy Mills now had my lines. How could I justify the prices I was asking
(to recoup my health testing, showing bills ext) when they had the same lines as me and for a lot less ? I couldn't
Once you find a "Breeder" that will sell to you, a new or novice breeder,
what you will soon discover that those type of breeders have not done any health testing on any of their poodles.
Health testing will appear on the OFA web page such as this Poodle's Bijou's Red Hot Pepper of Majestic
Now, you would not think this is a big deal, as parents appear healthy, except consider these Breeders
are also selling for breeding purposes, and have not got a clue as to if their dogs have, or even carry,
health issues... and they are also in some cases, doing line breeding on these lines, possibly and very likely on dogs
that are ticking time bombs with health problems.
There are a ton of illnesses, or physical issues a dog can "carry" and they themselves show no signs or symtoms, but when bred
to another "carrier" or "effected" dog, produce pups with serious health issues, or pups that will not survive at all.
Just imagine having 12 pups all with Entropia and needing corrective surgery, what will you do.
There are a number of Congenital or hereditary diseases to be screened for with a simple DNA test to ensure
your puppy is clear of these issues. Each breed has their own health concerns which are listed on OFA or CHIC registry.
In 2013 we know of a red breeder in West Virginia breeding Poodles that carry
Cataracts, Addisons, JRD, SA together.
We know another red breeder in Arcadia, Florida that has a litter right now but what she does not tell you is that
She is breeding half brother half sister together and that were heavily inbred themselves and she has not completed
health testing and has no clue as to what health ticking time bombs, she is producing. We do as we do our research.
Breeders in Austin, TX and Raleigh, N.C. are working together breeding poodles that have produced SA and JRD and HD.
It is buyer beware and when purchasing a Poodle for breeding purposes it would be wise to search the Poodle Health Registry
OFA data base and ensure that all the health testing is completed.
The result is that unsuspecting people have ended up with Poodles with health issues and have had to make
some pretty sad choices of either:
1. Try to return the Poodle to the breeder (who probably will not respond, if they are still in bussiness)
2. Spay/neuter and or just rehome those Poodles as pets
3. Breeding anyway, hoping no one notices or complains.
4. Spay/Neuter and keep them as pets and no longer breed
This is a huge financial loss if the dogs fail anything, responsible Breeders have had to start all over again.
Of course some breeders become emotionally attached and will spay/neuter and keep them for pets
and the down side to this is that this eliminates a place in your home for a Poodle you can breed
(most people are only allowed 3 dogs in their home).
I know 3 newer breeders going through this heartache right now..
Sadly a Back Yard Breeder is probably the only type of breeder that will place a puppy for breeding in a new or novice breeder's home.
So not only do you have to worry about health which is a HUGE concern,
(Brown poodles may have NE, DM and reds seem to have a lot of eye and renal problems, DM, Hip dysplasia)
BUT, you also have to be concerned with colour, how to get the colour, how to find what lines
and dogs "keep colour" and also how to breed to keep or better the colour.
Very few BYB's have up to date photos or videos of their adult dogs, so you get what you get, sight unseen.
It is very disappointing to be totally in love with a poodle and having them not end up being
the colour that you had hoped they would be and could be proud of .
And when you sell a red as a red and it ends up beign white or cream at a year of age,
or a brown that turn silver, beige or faded patchy browns, you are going to get a ton of
nasty phone calls and disgruntled puppy people and a bad reputation fast.
Of course with only a had full of people in the WORLD producing real dark red and
real dark brown Poodles with size, calm temperaments and all the OFA health clearances
you are really limited on where you could find a "real" red or brown to breed.
One particular red breeder in TX sells breeding rights on all her pups and is very nice to deal with,
so many new people have bought from her, however she doesn't share that her lines produce
many health issues such as entropia, JRD, and day blindness.
By real dark red and real dark brown, I mean you can see in person or videos and photos
of a breeder's red and or brown Poodles at over 3 years of age and see they are still dark.
Next you have to look around you. Find out who your competition is and what they have
and what will separate you from the probably 10-20 other breeders producing pups, in your area
because you know puppy people will be doing this, before they decide where to buy from.
So why should someone buy from you, what do you have to offer, that others also breeding, might not have.
Know your market. Meaning know what the trend in your chosen breed is.
Demand for a breed or a type of your breed, will dictate what is going to sell and for how much.
You want to know this information before you start out, because you don't want to produce pups that won't sell.
It is horrible to produce pups you put your heart and soul into, only to end up dumping off on friends,
neighbors or worse the shelter (yes it has happened to a ton of new/novice breeders).
24 years ago when I first started breeding I just wanted to breed lovely healthy pups for pets and do Therapy with
I didnt do any market research. As a result I had a litter of creams I could not give away.
So while I loved creams, I didn't consider what others would like and want for pets.
I lost so much money and almost cost me my relationship.
Just imagine 13 pups growing up fast and getting huge, eating, messing, crying and barking all night
my paying a small fortune to advertise, it was not a pleasant experience.
So please check your "market" out before you commit both emotionally and financially
to a breeding program. In 2013 for Standard Poodles there are hardly any breeders of whites
which are suddenly highly sought after because people want dye their coat to have fun with
or just to own something striking like they have seen on TV
Parti colour Poodles are also hugely popular now and of healthier stock as well some times,
because most "outcross bred" with not as much concern as to perfecting a coat colour as there is with rare solids.
The other growing trend is small standards or Klein or Moyen they are referred to as.
Of course you also have to season what is "selling" with what you like as well.
If you don't have passion for your breed, you will have a difficult time supporting, protecting
and promoting your breed and this comes through to your puppy people pretty quick.
I just love the standard Poodle but, they are a "dime a dozen" now in 2013
and not very unique at all. As a result the competition is huge and fierce to sell pups we produce and because of poor
breeding by a great number of BYB's, the public is getting a very bad impression of my breed's health and Temperament.
If I were to start all over again I certainly would look to the rare breeds that are similar in coat,
size if not temperament of the Poodle. The Portuguese Water Dog is a HUGE seller, selling for $2500.00, and as of 2013
demand is greater than the supply, so there is a market for this breed. However there are other breeds to consider such as:
Barbet
Irish Water Spaniel
Spanish Water Dog
Lagotto Romagnolo
Portuguese Water Dog
there are a couple more rare Poodle type breeds that I have seen at the rare breed shows
I have found interesting. I just feel it would be really cool to have something unique that not everyone has
but that people would be wanting to purchase, basically more "demand that there would be supply" of so that a breeder,
would not have to ever worry about finding homes for pups they do not keep for themselves.
As a breeder I want to know that the breed I spend every waking moment on, and take such great pride in producing
will be appreciated and wanted by people, and I'm sure you would too. So do your research first
this is so you can enjoy your hobby and not be financially strapped or stuck with pups you can't place.
I do not want to "discourage" anyone, but rather have people start off correctly and end up successful.
Some people wonder "why won't breeders just sell to me, because I have the money, what is the big deal"
Well when breeders like ourselves spend over $80,000/year on our Poodles in showing, health testing
performance titles and training and lessons or courses, all on improving ourselves and our breeding program
and just basically working so hard and sacrificing, daily to prove that what we have is "worthy"
of even being considered to be bred. Couple this with the over 2 decades it has taken me personally
to get to where I am with my program and other breeders the same or more, most reputable breeders
will rarely put any of their pups in an inexperienced breeding home, for fear of what others will
do with all that hard work and foundation that was laid.
Especially when novice breeders have not shown or trialed, because those novice breeders can't fully appreciate
the hard work, cost, emotional energy and dedication that went into producing those puppies.
Novice Breeders that have no idea, can easily take for granted how precious and rare it is what they have
and they can take a reputable breeder's name cash in on it, selling pups to anyone and everyone
with no regard as to what impact that choice will have on the breed and the breeders lines and reputation
basically ruining what reputable breeders have spent so much building.
Of course also keep in mind that selling for breeding is also creating more competition for already limited homes
available for Standard Poodles and with their own lines.
So this is why most reputable people will not consider placing their pups with a novice breeder.
Once a novice breeder has gotten their feet wet, gotten some titles, done all the health testing
gone through the steps and stages of a long learning process including the heart aches involved
then they will have proven themselves and can better appreciate a puppy from great backgrounds.
Of course a breeder that shows and or trials will also have more to offer a reputable breeder by way of
promoting their kennel name at performance venues and continuing a lineage of proven quality.
Reputable Breeders would then have assurances that such a breeder will appreciate
and protect what they have to offer as well.
Here are some links to help a novice breeder get started:
Breeders (what is the difference)
Breeding (things to consider)
Back Yard Breeders
Showing a Red Standard
Red Standard Poodle History